Garage system

Hi-Fi discussion
Post Reply
User avatar
YNWaN
Site Admin
Posts: 8878
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:02 pm

Re: Garage system

Post by YNWaN »

Oh yes, you can just link it out - as you say, the path of least resistance - no need to remove it at all.
Mark (100% Analogue)
User avatar
hifiaf
Posts: 2695
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:49 am
Contact:

Re: Garage system

Post by hifiaf »

Very cool! Well then since I already removed it, I guess I'll have to put it back in! Or, I guess I'd better made sure linking it give me useable balance before I do that, because removing it again would be a massive pain! But it would be useful in place, at the very least as something to hold the plastic balance knob in place :)
Adam
User avatar
YNWaN
Site Admin
Posts: 8878
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:02 pm

Re: Garage system

Post by YNWaN »

No, just put it back in and link it :).

The next thing we need to discuss is volume pots ..... I have two alternatives I’ve bought but never fitted - a Nobles one (I think) and a stepped one.....
Mark (100% Analogue)
MTPapaDan
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:52 pm

Re: Garage system

Post by MTPapaDan »

Variable series/parallel resistance, Oh my! Take the variable adjustment out and use fixed value series in parallel with the load. 1.2k in parallel with NS-1000 "8 ohm" load. It's more like 6.7 ohms isn't it? Or is it 2.4K in series and parallel with load?
Is there a chance someone once took apart the balance pot? Perhaps they reassembled it wrong. Well, it is 2 o'clock somewhere.
Why not replace your controls with these? http://www.goldpt.com/index.html The V24. And this?http://dact.com/html/balance_controls.html The CT4.
User avatar
hifiaf
Posts: 2695
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:49 am
Contact:

Re: Garage system

Post by hifiaf »

Well, this photo says it all:

https://www.hifiaf.com/wp-content/uploa ... _7053.jpeg

I did not put the pot back in; indeed, it is sitting lonely in the corner.

https://www.hifiaf.com/wp-content/uploa ... 03561.jpeg

Instead, I did this:

https://www.hifiaf.com/wp-content/uploa ... _7054.jpeg

(Yes, I also installed some CMC RCAs in Phono 1 and connected them with 24awg Neotech OCC solid core, as in the Paradise and 135s).

It strikes me that there is one difference between what I've done and leaving the balance pot in and linking it: I've broken the connections to ground from 1 to 6. Not that that may do anything...

https://www.hifiaf.com/wp-content/uploa ... 03560.jpeg

I also did this, rewired the PSM-2 with thicker wire, got rid of the continuity between the second positive power rail and earth ground (with a plastic washer and some heat shrink on the threads of the bolt), and generally tidied things up. I think the one power rail is still drifting a bit, so I'll still be happy to have a replacement PSM-2 arrive from Kit... But for now, this works.

I got it all connected and fired up. And: perfect channel balance, and things are sounding totally wonderful! It seems quite clear to me that things are sounding better than ever before, but that could be down to the fixed PSM-2, the new RCA sockets, or the linked balance pot... who knows. Whatever, I've very pleased indeed...

By the way, quite by chance, the first song I listened to turned out to have a great centre-left two-part conversation structure that was perfect for evaluating the stereo balance :)


Click here to learn how to add YouTube Videos to your phpBB forum
Adam
User avatar
hifiaf
Posts: 2695
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:49 am
Contact:

Re: Garage system

Post by hifiaf »

When not destroying precious cartridges yesterday, I found time to build a new power-only cable from some leftover Supra mains cable and some newly-arrived* Lumberg DINs. I can confirm Mark's previous report that the Lumbergs are much better than the ones I've been using (Preh and Delton): better inner pin design with solder buckets, larger contact surface and better plating on the outer pins -- and most important for this application a larger inner diameter so you can jam in lots of thick power cables. This cable might even sound a little better than the one I was previously using (it used 24awg wire; this 16awg).

* Newark have promised to refund all the extra shipping I've paid them.
Adam
Nobeone
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:32 am

Re: Garage system

Post by Nobeone »

That is cool Adam, glad everything non-cartridge related is working out!

As usual too many changes at once :D but I am glad the dominant balance issue is the pot and linking it out worked well. I suspect the thicker wire on the ZapSnaps is a good idea and can't hurt.
User avatar
hifiaf
Posts: 2695
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:49 am
Contact:

Re: Garage system

Post by hifiaf »

Thanks, Will! I appreciate all the help you've offered as always -- and yes, always too many changes all at once! The only thing I can say definitively about linking out the balance pot is that it fixed the balance issue I was having and *may* sound better :)

On pfm, MJS said that he thought linking the legs on a still-in-place bot would not be as effective as removing the pot completely.
Leaving the balance pot in and linking it out would just put extra resistance on the volume wiper and alter its characteristics a bit.
What do you think?

--

I've been noticing my system has been a bit all over the place in the last little while -- stunningly good sometimes, pretty average others. Sometimes I think it's the Mober plinth, with the midband "bloom" it seems to have introduced. Sometimes I think I'm just imagining it. Mostly, I think it's my inconsistent PSM-2 -- in most cases when it's not sounding great, I check the voltages on the power rails, and they've drifted. I'll be happy to get the proper one installed when Canada Customs see fit to let it through.

--

I will say, though, that the Nait 2 sadly wasn't up even to the standard of the ZapSnaps/32.5/135 system during one of its more average moments. I've gotten used to the power, extension, finesse, etc., of that system very quickly; getting the Nait 2 back in, I immediately lost much of it. Still great sounding and very fun, but not 95% as others have reported. Maybe about 80%? Of course I have still yet to implement those little mods we've discussed...
Adam
Nobeone
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:32 am

Re: Garage system

Post by Nobeone »

I had felt some of the difference in the 845R and 2K would be necessary to balance out the other inbalances in your system. I was wrong. I suppose it was less the imbalance in everything else and more the imbalance in your "by ear" balance adjustment (!!!) that was the difference between the 845R and 2K and setting those to essentially 0R has worked nicely.

Thinking about it a little, the issue with the balance pot is that it isn't well balanced. Removing it and linking out or putting fixed resistors in the input to wiper position clearly fixes this. If you leave it in and link out the input to wiper you are still left with an imbalance in the wiper to ground. The extent to which the imbalance left in will effect the next stage I am unsure. Ceratinly what MJS suggests is the cleaner solution and he too seems to be pondering the extent to which it matters. If in doubt, the fewest components gets my vote.

Until the PSM-2 is replaced I guess we will not know but I would say it is perfectly natural to feel your systems absolutely singing one day and not the next due to changes in your mood and emotional response and the weather as much as anything!

If you do a few Nait2 mods to reduce the PSU load, massively reduce the 47uF PSU rail cap ESR and put the larger LM317 in I think you will close the gap. You could also do the balance pot mod! Then there is the feedback section mod to reduce the gain and get better volume control. It has a little more to give but will never compete with the main system. Is it enough to enjoy msuic with though? Oh yes.

I would settle for 80% of the performance for 20% of the price every time! :D
Nobeone
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:32 am

Re: Garage system

Post by Nobeone »

Besides, Naim Olive is just an effects box https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads ... st-4101981 and since Naim Olive is Naim CB in a new case with CAD drawn PCBs, so is your beloved 32.5 / 135s set up ... :D
Post Reply